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A Simply Blessed Life With Jaime Cross

by | Jan 15, 2019 | Podcasts | 0 comments

Today’s conversation is with the beautiful Jamie Cross who is the CEO and founder of MIG soap. When I say beautiful, yes, she is an outward beauty, but she has got an inner light that shines so bright, you can feel it. She dropped so many gems throughout our conversation, I just love her. So I’m glad you’re here today!

The Simply Blessed Life with Lori Nordstrom Podcast is now available on iTunes! Listen to the episode by clicking the link below and be sure to subscribe!

A Simply Blessed Life With Jaime Cross

Founder, MIG soap

Lori: Welcome, Jamie! I am super excited to have you here.

Jamie: Thank you.

Lori: Yes! I know that you’re just a power house and came highly recommended, both your business, and just you as a person, and I’m super excited just to get to know you.

Jamie: Thank you! No, I’m excited to be here and just talk stories, and share vision. It’s great.

Lori: Absolutely. Well, you know, we are talking to a lot of women who are starting on their creative entrepreneur journey and so I would just love to hear how you got started.

Jamie: Well, I had been in the corporate world and was a banker and had basically, when my husband and I, it took us five years to get pregnant. And so when we finally started our family, I did not want to be in the workplace. I wanted to be home raising our children. And so I quit my high paying corporate job and came home and jumped right into motherhood. And so it was about a year and a half and we had just had our second baby and I was really feeling, well it was, it was a time of pain and pressure. And I know so many of us make life altering decisions when we’re in a state of pain. And so we were, you know, my husband was teaching, we weren’t making enough money to pay our bills and I was really just struggling as a woman because I felt growing up, like I had always had this dream and vision to do something to change the world. And I wanted to be a mother and a wife. And when I looked in scripture, I saw Proverbs 31 woman, like doing everything and having it all and being profitable in business and successful in her family in the home. And that’s what I wanted. And then I looked at my life and it was so far from any of that. And so, I just started praying and I asked God for a billion dollar idea and it was so amazing what the turn of events, you know, when you start asking for things, God answers in peculiar ways and he puts you in situations that, you know, refine you and define you. And, we were at church one Sunday and our pastor, so this was like a week or so after I had started praying for this idea, and our pastor stopped the sermon and in the middle of his teaching he said, “This never happens, but I just felt like the Lord said that there is a stay-at-home mom here…” And I always get emotional when I tell this part of the story. He said, “There is a stay-at-home mom in the audience here that God wants to give a billion dollar idea to, so get ready for it!” And I was like, at that time I was nursing my newborn sitting there in church, like in the back, like just overwhelmed and praying and crying out to God. And when I heard him say that, I was like, Lord, whatever you give to me, I’ll be faithful with it. And I had a dream two weeks later and I saw the whole business plan. Like it was like a blueprint. Here you go, here’s a, here’s an idea for you. And what’s really amazing is that, um, and this was a couple of years into building my business that he re-, The Lord reminded me that like, this is something I’d always placed in you, this idea for naturopathic healing and herbalism and beauty. Like I had concocted my own, like, I took my mom’s ingredients from the fridge and was making skincare at a very young age. And I had forgotten about like my farm girl roots because I had been so deeply immersed in corporate. And so he took something that was deeply hidden in my heart and revealed it to me in a dream. And so it’s been eight years. And, you know, a lot of people think when God gives you an idea or when, when you have an idea to do something that everything’s going to be easy, but anytime you create something amazing, there’s, you know, there’s an ancient proverb that says, “Consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds, not if, but when.” So, I’ve learned to take joy in the process of the challenge, because building, so for all of the women that are, or all of the people that are listening and they have an idea or they’re starting and they’re, they’re beginning that process. Like not everything is clear when you begin, but action creates clarity. And so I created my product. I spent a year studying chemistry, which I’d failed in high school. I was researching alchemy and herbalism and essential oils and medical journals and formulated my first product a year after the dream. And then I was like, what’s next? Okay. I have to sell this stuff, so I started walking up and down the streets of Denver and Colorado Springs, walking into stores, asking for owners and buyers and just making deals and shaking hands on the spot and getting into these stores and then discovered early on that I did not like that business model. I didn’t like being disconnected from the consumer and only working with stores and so I spent four years at farmer’s markets all throughout Colorado just doing market research and selling our products and figuring out what people really wanted and reformulating and retweaking our products hundreds and hundreds of times until I had 95 percent of people coming back to me saying, “I can’t live without these products, they’re changing my life. My Eczema’s gone, my psoriasis gone, my acne’s gone. I can sleep through the night. I got off my medication.” And, so that is really the beginning of everything. So, I’ve talked a lot. Do you have any questions? Haha.

Lori: So many questions! And first of all, you had me in tears too with that story. So, there’s that. I stopped taking notes at one point, but that is huge. And I think for so many women that have their dream, it’s- What do you think made you say, “I want a billion dollar idea” instead of just having this little dream of “I just want to do something, I want to be more and be able to show my family what’s possible.” What was it there that said “I want a billion dollar dream”, literally?

Jamie: Yes! I grew up having a really strong relationship with the Lord and understanding the stories in the Bible of great people and there was never any limits. I never saw God have limits. And I saw Abraham and all these different amazing people owning land and property and God being like, “Hey, Solomon, here’s all this abundance and then go build me this temple.” For me, I thought, if I’m going to change the world, it has to be big and you need a lot of resources. I think the number one problem that people face today comes down a lot to financial. And I’ve even experienced that now, like you can solve so many problems by just making the money issue go away. And so when money is in your hands and it’s not in your heart, it’s an amazing tool that can change people’s lives. And, I’ve been able to hire a tutor and bring health in the home because we homeschool and I have somebody who’s here full time nannying that is like, I’m just living this life. So legacy was one thing, but then also just knowing that I wanted to do something really big and the only way to do that is to have plenty of resources, unlimited resources.

Lori: That’s beautiful. I always say “we have to make a lot so we can give a lot”. But you know, you said something and I want to make sure that I’m quoting this right because this is a tweetable quote for sure! You said, “Money in your hands, and not in your heart, can be the greatest tool.” Did I say that right?

Jamie: Yes!

Lori: Can you kind of expand on that thought?

Jamie: Yeah, for sure. So, it’s okay that we talk about scripture, right?

Lori: Absolutely!

Jamie: We didn’t really define that in the beginning. Haha. So, a lot of people get confused when they see the scripture that talks about money. A lot of people will quote it and say “money is the root of all evil.” But that’s not true. We see everywhere in scripture abundance just never being an issue, that’s never been an issue for God. As a matter of fact, he said, “I will bless the work of your hands” and “I will open the windows of heaven and pour them out so much that you can’t even handle it.” And, I’m kind of elaborating here, but we have an apple tree in our front yard and I’ve been teaching the boys about planting seeds. And I’m like, man, look at what one seed did. One seed. And if you look at nature, it’s really a reflection of how God operates. So one seed planted in the ground and a tree sprouts up, and we’ve had now thousands and thousands of apples that we’ve made apple butter and apple sauce and apple cider and all of this apple stuff. And I’m like, that was from one seed. Do you think that for God there’s a limit? How many more seeds are in all of these thousands of apples that you can now go plant thousands of more seeds and get thousands of more orchards? Like is God not a limitless God? And so the problem that occurs with people is when it becomes the love of money. So the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. And so if you understand the role that money plays in life and in society, that it’s a tool and that it’s not something like- money doesn’t own me. I’m not driven by it. I think it’s a real mental shift for people, I had to work my way, like my mindset out of having money issues. And crazy enough, is poverty is more of a money issue, I see, than wealth even is. And, we have to reprogram our minds to think from that place of abundance and expectation and knowing that when I put my hand to the plow, the work of my hands are blessed and I can produce profitability in magnitude, and then make an impact because of it, you know? Does that make sense?

Lori: That makes such sense! Thank you! So let’s go back to kind of the beginning. When you had this dream, this business plan, that came to you and, right from the very beginning, did you see it being of this huge magnitude? Was it a starting point, stepping stones? What did that look like?

Jamie: Yeah, no, I saw the big picture and I understand that not everybody is like big-picture-thinker. So some people are like, “all I want to know is what to do for the next 30 days”. And that’s really where you want to start. Like, what is my action step today that’s going to get me to the next step? And so, as the visionary for me, like I think in terms of vision and big picture. And so even though I saw the big picture, I had to break it down into action steps. And so the first thing that every person should do when they have an idea or even if they’re already in the building phase, is to make sure that they’ve written down their vision. Make it plain. There’s a transformation that occurs when you sit down and say, “Okay, here’s everything that I want to create.” And the amazing thing is, as you continue on, there’s course correction that has to happen and the dream will get bigger and the way that you achieve the dream is going to change over time. But the key thing is that you begin taking action. And so what’s the first step? A lot of people think, “Oh, I need to get a logo, I need to start branding.” And we can kind of get into the practicalities of building. Getting to that first six figures. It’s not building this amazingly gorgeous website and having all these employees. It really is, “what is your offer”? You know, “what’s your product”? Making sure that you’ve proven it in the marketplace so that there is a demand for it. “Do people actually want to buy what I’m selling?” And then how are you going to position yourself? So, I’m a really avid follower of Russell Brunson, I’ve used clickfunnels to build and grow to almost 2 million in less than a year now. So, he talks about a hook, story, and offer. So once you have your product and you know what you’re selling, then you’re going to build. I think the best place to start is to build a funnel because it keeps your customer focused on the end goal, which is making the purchase. Or for anybody selling services, rather than ecommerce products, maybe they’re doing an opt-in. So having a funnel and then making sure that the copy is there with the hook, story, and offer. I can recommend some resources at the end of this if you want.

Lori: Yeah, that’d be great!

Jamie: Just getting your funnel going and selling your product and doing what’s called “a perfect webinar” where you’re- I started out by doing facebook lives. Once I decided to go online, I had already done so much research for all those years. I knew my product and I knew my audience. Can you tell me more about what questions do you think your audience might have that I can answer?

Lori: Yeah. You know, I think it’s interesting because as creative entrepreneurs, when we have this thing that we love, typically what happens in the minds of a creative entrepreneur is that we have this thing that we love, and all of a sudden it’s like, “okay, I want to make a business out of this”. And because I love it so much, of course people are gonna pay me for it. But what happens then is that we have this breakdown when it comes to actually building the business, because of course building the business takes so much more than just creating this thing. So, talk to me about what a funnel looks like when you have a product like skincare. When I think funnels, a lot of times I’m thinking about online businesses, as far as a service. When you’re leading to a training, that kind of thing. So what does the funnel look like when it’s an actual product?

Jamie: Yeah! So, it’s one hero product that you know people are gonna want to buy. And I love that you said that because that is a huge problem that most people face. They get excited about all the pretty stuff. Like, “oh, I had this great idea and I’ve got this great thing and my pretty website and all my pretty colors and my awesome logo” and then they go to try to sell it and none of the substance is there. So you have to think in terms of “what is the audience looking for?” So as the entrepreneur, we want to get people really easy entry into our world of products. And so on the front end, you have one hero thing, whether it is a physical product or a service. So for me, I knew that our lotion product was our best seller and I took our best seller in the essence that I knew everybody, like 90 percent of people wanted. And I built my entire front end on that one product. And my strategy was to help people understand why that the pain that they were facing with their skin was only solved through my product, which is very true if you understood how the lotion bar works, and all this stuff and how it helps people. They have no alternative than to go and use my stuff. So, then what you have is, they go to purchase the product and you have the upsells on the back end that leads them into this whole congruence of more products that are fitting with- like it makes sense. It’s almost like you’re telling a story. “Well, if you need lotion, then you probably need soap. And if you need soap then you probably need this other product” You’re thinking about what the customer wants there. For me, I’m thinking about what their morning routine looks like or their evening routine and what problems can I solve for them and how can I meet that need. And so if you think always in terms of meeting needs when you’re building and creating products, you’ll never have a problem selling and making a lot of money as long as there’s a market for what you’re selling.

Lori: Yes, okay. So let’s backtrack a little bit and talk about in the beginning again, because a lot of people are there with this idea, and maybe even starting a plan, but did you literally start in your kitchen with making product?

Jamie: Oh yes! Oh my goodness. Yes. As a matter of fact, our neighbor, he used to build clean rooms and I was in my kitchen, and in order to-

Lori: What is a clean room? What does that mean? Haha.

Jamie: Oh, it’s a lab! So, we built a lab in our garage, that was a clean room. It was a sterile environment for us to pour our soaps. Yeah, so definitely it was in like the kitchen and the garage.

Lori: Okay!

Jamie: Yeah. And I was making, there’s another funny part-two of the story. I built this mold and I was pouring like 60 bar blocks and then one of our stores was a real haggler and he- now if you go to our website, one of our soaps is like $20 at retail, and when I first started he wanted to buy my soap at like $2 at wholesale.

Lori: Oh no. Haha.

Jamie: I started there like just proving my products in the marketplace. Getting people results. Creating a demand. And now we’ve been able to evolve there with our pricing. But, yeah, it was really grassroots. I was in our kitchen and our garage and our basement for the first, like, six years.

Lori: Wow! And you put so much time, not only building this clean lab, but you said you spent a year studying science (which hurts my head) and then going door to door and then doing your farmers’ markets. Do you mind sharing how long it took you to turn a profit?

Jamie: Yeah! So, with the farmer’s market, I was profitable from the beginning. But profitable like, we were able to take money and put it back into the business. I wasn’t able to take an income, like a real solid, salaried, income until about a year ago. But we were living off a portion of the income within like the third year. So by the time we had really gotten going on our farmer’s markets, we were able to take some of that and pay some of our bills.

Lori: Okay, so about three years in. And I think that’s another big concept for people to grasp, is that we do have to be thinking long term. I see a lot of creative entrepreneurs that get into their first year business and it’s, “Oh, I’ve put in all this time and effort and this is my passion, my love, and I’m not making any money. I’m a failure.” Can you speak to that a little bit?

Jamie: Right! And what’s so amazing about that is that people have no problems spending 12 years in school and then going to college for four years and coming out of it in debt and then maybe getting out of debt like 15 years from then and then hopefully retiring at 65, you know? So yeah, we definitely have to think longterm and business is, anything in life, is about planting seeds and growing. Seasons of planting and reaping a harvest. And so if you look at business like that, “okay, right now I’m learning, I’m planting seeds into education.” This might not reap a harvest for a couple of years. And then when I start making the product and selling the product, I might not reap a profitable harvest for a couple of years. And then even now there’s always a progression of seed time and harvest. And the Bible says that as long as the sun rises, there will always be seasons of seed time and harvest. And so, take heart! That’s the great thing: you put a seed in the ground, you water it, you fertilize it, it will produce fruit. So don’t give up, because when the proper time happens, you will reap a harvest if you don’t give up.

Lori: Yes! Beautiful picture with the seed and the planting and the harvest and I love that. Another thing that you said was that action creates clarity. And that’s another thing that I love hearing. You know, a lot of times as Christian women in business, we, I think a lot of times use the excuse of, “well I need to pray about it”. And that can become an excuse when we should be living our lives. You know, we’re supposed to be praying without ceasing. And so when the opportunity comes, we should be ready to take action, not using the excuse of, “Oh, I have to sit back again and pray about it”. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jamie: Oh, I love this subject! Oh yes. So at the very heart of that is a misinterpretation of how God works. I’ve always taken this idea that Jesus came to give us life and give us life more abundantly. And he says, “I will bless the work of your hands”. And so I’m constantly moving forward. Isaiah says, “I will hear a voice behind me saying, ‘This is the way. Walk in it’.” But you have to walk! And you have to keep moving forward and God will give you direction as you’re progressing. But if you’re in pause mode, then there’s nowhere to go from there. And so as you move forward and step out in faith, clarity will come. It’s like the Bible is so clear about what faith is. It’s the evidence of things unseen. So a lot of times we don’t see the end, but we do know “okay, this looks right, this feels right. I have a peace, I’m just going to move forward.” And then as you move forward, there’s always going to be course correction and growth and transformation. One of the events that I went to a couple of years, this really helped me as I was going from like grassroots farmer’s markets girl into like, okay, I’m going to go online to the digital space and take this thing all the way. One of the speakers was like, “you’re going to stink at this when you start. And you’re gonna stink and you’re gonna stink, and you’re gonna stink. And then you’re going to stink less as you keep doing it.” And I was like, yes! Okay! It’s okay to not be good at this when you start! When I first was doing my sales presentations at the markets or even online, it wasn’t perfect. But I was like a forensic marketer. I was a forensic entrepreneur. I am going to figure this out and learn and grow and evolve and then change my message and change what ever I need to change to get to this to the point where people are throwing their money at me because it resonates so deeply with my audience. And so that is a process that has to be gone through. There’s no shortcut.

Lori: Beautiful. I love, too, that you’re even using the words that “they’re going to be throwing money at me” because you talked a little bit about how we have this idea that money is the root of all evil. And I think that we’re a lot of times even getting beyond that as far as, “No, it is the LOVE of money.” We understand that, as believers. But we still have this little pain point around feeling like we can be wealthy and we can live in that abundance. So can you talk a little bit about that as far as just being open to that no-limits sort of life? And even going back to the Proverbs 31 woman that did have it all. She was abundant and she was bringing in money and she was supporting her household. Maybe even a little bit around that as far as being open to the limitless life that God has for us.

Jamie: Oh, absolutely. I’m glad you brought up Proverbs 31 woman because that’s exactly what I was going to talk about. So, in that passage, it says that she considers a field and she buys it and then she looks at what she’s done and she says, “This is profitable.” She looks at her profits and then she goes out and she buys more stuff. What she’s creating is good and profitable. And I was going to actually blog about this, but you know, everybody quotes about she laughs at fear and she laughs at the days to come and she has no fear for the future and her household is well taken care of. Well, it’s because she did all this work and she was profitable at it. She wasn’t struggling along, she wasn’t worried about asking people for money or tiptoeing around the money issue. You are worthy to be paid and compensated. The Bible says that “a workman is worthy of his hire”, so you have to look at yourself as worthy. And I think worthiness is a big issue for a lot of women. I have an amazing team, just amazing women and staff, and I pay them well. I’m never asking people to cheapen themselves when they’re working for me. And I never asked people to cheapen their labor by bargaining on their products. I want to pay people well because I know that I’m being paid well for what I do. And so we all have to raise our level and raise our mentality and start thinking not just what can I receive, but what can I give, because you reap what you sow. And so when I’m tipping people at the restaurant, it’s little mentalities that like that, that I had to shift. I went from tipping at 20 percent to like, an extra $2, which I know people struggle over that. Like, should I tip 20 or 25 percent? Sometimes it comes down to like $3 or $4. Well, I started going from like 20 to 25 percent and then 30 percent in my tips and giving abundance. Just always thinking from that place of giving and receiving. Giving abundance and receiving abundance. Start analyzing your mentality towards money and how can you start shifting into abundance by giving, because then you’ll start reaping what you sow.

Lori: Yes. So true. And I love that you’re bringing up that mentality. Because I have found in my years of business coaching, I’ve always been “business, business, business” and really, you know, a system and structure and planning and all the things. In the last year, God has just shown me so much around the mindset piece. And I really believe that building business to greater levels, I mean it’s like 90 percent mindset. I think that’s a huge portion and I love that you just mentioned that simple thing around just tipping a little bit more. That person, their entire income usually is that tip that you’re putting on the table. And so if we can have that gratefulness around giving, I think it opens us up to also receiving, just like you said.

Jamie: It totally does!

Lori: How long was it before you started building your team? You said you have a great team, so I’m just curious on when you started bringing people in?

Jamie: Yes! I started my second year into the farmer’s markets. It was actually halfway through the first year. Once I started really getting my people to my table, it started out me just being like, “Hey, do you want to try some body butter?” And people would be like, “No!” Haha. They would laugh at me and I had to get really good at how do I get people to my tent and to my table because there were other skincare companies there too. So I did two things. I really perfected my hook to get people in and I raised my prices, which made me look different. Like, “why is her stuff so expensive? We need to figure out what this stuff is.” Never being the cheapest. That’s a good thing. People don’t race to the bottom. So it was at that point when when our stuff started really taking off and I actually had to hire girls to come in and just take money so I could keep selling as people were coming to our table. So the farmers markets was the start, and then last October we got out of our garage and we were able to get our own facility and start really building the manufacturing side. 19 people now between contractors and W2’d employees that make our products. We do everything in house, we don’t outsource. We answer our own phones, answer our own email and all of that. We keep everything in our culture.

Lori: That’s so great. Well, I know I’ve worked with Stephanie who has been scheduling our appointments, and it’s just so wonderful to see an employee that really, really loves what she does and you can just tell with every response that she gives she really loves you and loves what you’re all about. She loves your purpose and your mission and she relays that with every single little interaction that I have with her. You can just see that in your team and that just makes me happy. Makes me tingle. Haha.

Jamie: I’ll let her know! Thank you so much. That’s awesome to hear.

Lori: Well, one other thing that you said that I want to kind of expand on is this idea on creating a luxury brand. And I think that is becoming more and more important in our marketplace, there is so much competition at the bottom. It’s just not a place to compete and the middle guy is kind of falling out. So we either have to compete at the bottom or we have to create a luxury brand a lot of times. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jamie: Yes! As a matter of fact, some of the great leaders right now in big industries are saying that going luxury and elite brands is the only way to really survive. It’s expensive to advertise and you want to have your margins right. So I always look at “luxury” as an opportunity to serve people at the highest potential. And so it’s everything even from what you’re saying about answering the phones. It’s not just your packaging and your product, it’s the entire experience you take a customer through. How far are you willing to go to serve the customer to make sure that they’re getting what they need? That you’re responding in a way that really makes them feel loved and appreciated. And I believe that that truly is what luxury IS. Serving them to the highest potentia. Giving them an experience. Whether it’s unboxing, when they received their shipment. Or, if you’re in service, who are the people around you and your team that are serving the clients? That are giving them an experience that makes them feel like a “wow” experience. So you’ve got unboxing and then you’ve got the aesthetics, like how does your packaging look? And then are they getting results from their products? Or if you’re coaching, or whatever you’re doing in services, are they walking away going, “man, my life has changed because I just made this purchase” and “that’s what luxury really is”. Every single person can raise their prices if they are proving their product in the marketplace by offering results and amazing experiences to their customers.

Lori: I love that. Love it, love it. And I totally 100 percent agree with you, when we do raise our prices and we own those prices, it is the biggest opportunity to really just show up big. Over delivering every single thing. No matter how high that price goes, we have an opportunity to overdeliver on that price and it opens up those doors for us to be able to do that and really live in our purpose.

Jamie: Exactly! See yourself there!

Lori: Yeah! So are there any tips that you would give to somebody in the beginning, getting set in the right direction?

Jamie: Yes, the first thing is just write the vision and make it plain. That will catapult you. Read the right books and have the right tools in place.

Lori: Write it, read it and study.

Jamie: Yes, get your offer right. Prove your product. Make sure that there’s a market for what you’re selling, and then get really good at selling it.

Lori: The good at selling part is always a tough one because we hear a lot of, “I don’t want to be a salesman”, “I don’t want to be pushy”. All these things that we hear. Any last words around that?

Jamie: Yeah, I mean, there’s different ways to sell, but selling is ultimately serving, and we have a moral obligation to get our products into the hands of more customers. And if you know that, then you’ll be compassionate about selling. It’s all in your presentation. People need to shift a little bit. I do know that there are people that are good doctors and they’re practitioners, but they’re not salespeople and they’re not business people. Then they need to actually hire a partner that is good at selling and good at business that can do that part of the business while they do the practitioner stuff. You either get good at selling or find somebody who is and then bring them on as a partner.

Lori: Yes, good. So let’s go back to your home life, because you are now this powerhouse business woman. You’re not in the corporate world. You’re doing your own thing, which is even more responsibility and you’re homeschooling. You have four kids, they’re still young. There’s so much going on there. What would be your tips for just really making sure you’re keeping your faith first and keeping family second before the rest of it?

Jamie: That’s a really great question. And that comes with practice because it’s easy to get just overtaken. I watched my dad be a workaholic and a lot of entrepreneurs love to work. They love to work on their business. They love to do the things. So, practicing putting your phone away, getting out of the office. For me, I have moments and blocks during the day where I go and I’m with the boys and we do story time and I’m connecting with them. I would just say practicing that, and being really conscious of it. Also, having help is helpful. People are like, “oh, I could never get a nanny. I wanna raise my own kids.” I am raising my own kids. But sometimes I can go out and take one of my boys on a date while my nanny’s there. She’s helping do food prep. She’s running errands. She’s just somebody there that’s the second set of hands that’s helping and I think every woman needs help in the home. A lot of women are miserable because they don’t have help and because there’s this weird stigma with having maids and nannies and tutors, but the proverbs 31 woman had a maid, servants and help. We can’t change the world without it! We have to build our tribe.

Lori: Yes, and even asking for help, I think, is sometimes hard for us as women, but that’s part of the deal. Part of the big picture. I feel like I could keep asking you questions forever. You have shared so much and I so appreciate your time and just your vision and outlook on things. It’s so beautiful and I just appreciate hearing from you and having the time from you today.

Jamie: Thank you so much, Lori! It was so great to talk with you. It was fun!

Lori: Thank you. Thanks for being here.

Lori: Thanks so much for joining me today for this conversation with Jamie. I told you she was fantastic. I love her. You can check out the mighty and good soap If you’re enjoying this podcast, I would absolutely love and appreciate it. If you would subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. It just takes a couple of minutes and it really, really makes a big difference in means a lot. So we will have all of Jamie’s info and links and I just want you to know how much I appreciate you being here. So thank you and I hope to have you back next week.